No Need To Ask with Amani Duncan
No Need To Ask with Amani Duncan
The Journey of a Record’s Man | No Need to Ask Conversation with Jaha Johnson, Head of A&R Hitco Music
Welcome to episode 3 of No Need to Ask Podcast. My name is Amani Duncan and I am your host on this journey.
On today’s show, I have the pleasure of speaking with one of my oldest friends, Jaha Johnson. Jaha is known as one of the premiere A&R decutibes in the music business.
Not only did he spearhead Def Soul, the R&B imprint under the premiere hip hop label Def Jam Records but went on to hold senior positions at Interscope Records and currently resides as the Head of A&R for La Reid’s imprint HitCo Music.
Additionally Jaha Johnson has managed award winner multi-platinum artists talent Usher, Common and Mary J. Blige.
You can read some of the article’s Jaha has written here:https://medium.com/@jaha1
Get ready for a bird’s eye view into the exciting life of a record’s man.
Please subscribe and write a review here: https://Apple.co/3drgU57
visit www.noneedtoaskpod.com
[inaudible]
Speaker 2:welcome to another episode of no need to ask podcast. I am your host, Amani Duncan, and the topic of this episode is the journey of a records, man. Hi, jaw. Welcome to no need to ask podcast. Thanks for having me. How are you doing today?
Speaker 3:I'm doing good. I have no complaints, but I know we're so young, but yeah, so,
Speaker 2:but seriously, like over 20 years, I think, um, wow. We met, uh, when I was at Def jam. And you were, uh, what were you doing? You joined Island Def jam, right? Correct. Okay. And that was probably the late nineties
Speaker 3:that was in 1999.
Speaker 2:Oh, so exact. Wow. Um, okay. So, you know, tell us what were you doing? Um, back then when we were at Island Def jam, I think you were always on the creator side, but why don't you walk the listeners through like your role back then? And we know, why did you want to go into the creator side of the record business?
Speaker 3:I mean, to, to kind of take it back to even how we even got to Def jam. Um, I'm originally from New York born and raised in Brooklyn. And I live aside for me to go to college. I specifically wanted to go to HBCU. I'm just inspired to just be around more people that look like me. I mean, yes, both growing up in New York was diverse and, and of course I had friends from all walks of life, but there was something about the black college experience that I wanted to have. And at that time, Atlanta was really bubbling and I went to Clark Atlanta university, a couple of friends of ours, who I decide to go down there. And I started interning at LaFace records, which is where it kind of all started for me. You know, around that time I was just hustling and turning it in the face. I turned to Dallas, Austin, a rowdy started off promoting parties and just my friends and I, there was a, there was a whole contingent of us back then, uh, Chaka, Zulu, Jay Irving, um, uh, Coltrane, secure Stuart. There were a lot of us that work I had just knew to come to Atlanta and we're just trying to figure it out. And Atlanta was a great melting pot city cause it kind of sat in the middle, uh, which, which makes it unique. And it was only one of the only colleges where four black universities were on the same campus, Morehouse Spelman, Morris Brown, and Clark. And I started originally on the promotion side. All my internships were learning how to promote and promoting parties in the Prilosec department at record labels for Shante dies and so on and so forth. And I'll never forget one day. Um, I w I was also doing an internship for these radio pools for RCA. I did like some of the records that I was that I have to promote that I had to literally call radio stations to promote. Right. And, uh, I remember I came back to LaFace and I, young intern didn't even know Eliquis, you know, on a personal basis. And I stopped him in the hall and I said, what do you do if you don't like the records that you have to promote? And he said, he said, there are only two sides of the business that really matter. There's the people who make the pizza, which is the creators and the ANRs and the people who deliver the pizza, which are the promotion people in the marketing people. And he said, if you don't like what you have to sell, then you should go learn how to make it. And that was like, that was it. That was like that one moment of, you know, he probably doesn't even remember the conversation. It kind of crystallized everything for me. And I just dug into trying to find out what it meant to be an ANR and working with producers and developing talent. And shortly thereafter, I joined up with, um, some friends called noontime that was a collection of, um, Ryan Glover, Chris Hicks, Terry Walls, Henry Lee, Shakira Stuart, or myself, some would come from Howard. Some from Oakland, Shakira was Morehouse. I was at Clark and we started this production company, managing producers and developing artists. And that quickly led to us working, you know, with artists on bad boy and RCA and quests records. And we ended up working on, on the soundtrack for Def jam at the time that team Davis was working on, um, was, it was before the have, Oh, how to be a player. Oh yeah. Shout out to Tina Davis. Right. And that's, that's where the Def jam relationship started. Um, and from there just learning more about being an, our hair was this black woman who was like wanting this aid, our department at this historic hip hop record label. And it was just eyeopening. So, you know, from that time at the face to now working with producers and seeing policy, and then now meaning to you today, the subtly or, and Kevin Liles and the whole crew over there, it just, just kept sparking the fire me more and more to want to be on the record side. Um, and after some time just building relationships and hustling Lee or corn offered me a job to come on board and specifically work on the RNB side of Def jam. Cause, uh, as you know, after the Island Def jam merger, you guys inherited, um, some R and B artists. We did one being Cisco and drew Hill. And at that time, most of the ANRs, they did mostly hip hop. So it was myself and Jojo. Brim were the only two guys there that specifically did R and B. So that kind of became my niche. I'm working with Cisco and you heal Kelly Price one 12. So I just kind of became known as the RMB guy at Def jam. We started a division called Def soul, a law by Kevin House. Ken allows and music, soul child was signed that. So, and, um, that's, that's where it all began for me.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's a big move and you just kind of just glossed over it. You know, my being of my days of when I just would always bother Kevin Liles, like I was, I was fearless back then. And, and I think a lot of people today, especially with a lot of young people today, they, you know, when you tell them these stories, they can't even imagine, you know, just approaching these, these huge Titans of the industry. Um, so what, like what made you feel so confident to just walk up to LA Reed as an intern and have that conversation with him that really was pivotal, pivotal in your career?
Speaker 3:Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, and that's an important point you make. And I think whether it was then, you know, I can give examples of, of today, you know, they're, they're a young creators, like a young man named justice. Who's part of a love Renaissance. And you know, his spirit reminds me of that. It's like, you know how he approaches executives? Like, you know, I, I cold called big John back, you know, back then and angelic miles when she was a publisher or walking up on New York Coleman or Russell Simmons, like that's what we had to do. And I think, you know, if you want to be great, you can't be scared to engage. Right. You might get some doors slammed, you might get some shrugged offs and, you know, people not willing to give you the time. But, you know, I find that, you know, the people that you're approaching, that's usually how we got how we got them there. Right. Somebody stopping to take the time to give them information. You know, I always say that information is free. What you do with it is on you, you know, some, you know, LA could have given me that same game and it could've went completely over my head and I could have, you know, just left the music business. But for me it, it sparked something in me. And I feel like every interaction, every conversation, whether, you know, no matter whether someone thinks it's big or small, um, when I'm talking to an intern, a random person in the store, um, a big executive and artist, I don't take any interaction or conversation for granted because that's, that's where the inspiration comes from. It comes from different perspectives and, and just kind of, you never know what conversation is going to inspire you or trigger something inside you to, to write something, to create something, to have a new idea, you know, that's, that's the beauty of, to me, the world, right. You know, it's funny kind of to kind of bring things full circle, not to really go off subject. But when we look at the times room with COVID, I think one of the biggest things we've missed is that human interaction, right? Like I think that, I think the world has learned how to adjust with platforms like zoom and just, and, and, um, and FaceTime. But there's something about the genuineness of just having a casual conversation or deliberate conversation that sparks an idea and, you know, specifically entertainment specifically in music, it's all about inspiration. It's all about conversation. That's where the greatest songs come from. That's where the greatest ideas come from. I mean, how many times have you come up with a great award show performance or video concept just based on conversation with, with the talent, with other executives with repairs, like that's, that's what we live off of. That's the lifeblood of, of, of, uh, of our businesses is, is, is that type of engagement
Speaker 2:agreed, agreed. Were so instrumental in bringing R and B for the label to the forefront. And then I remember, Oh God, maybe a few years later after we met, you had an opportunity to go to London. Can you tell us more about that?
Speaker 3:So about a year and a half, then I think it was 2001. Um, at that time, obviously Def Jim's super power was, was hip hop. And, um, but there were other labels, bigger, you know, Columbia would just had these huge pop stars or in a school bed, huge rock stars. Um, and they had dr. Dre, um, there were other labels that were more global and Aristotle was more global at the time. And Def jam being kind of like this little engine didn't have that same reach and Lee, or had just as global vision for hip hop and this global vision for the label as a whole. And, you know, as we all know him, not scared to take on any new tasks, he's like, I need our music in all those markets. I need artists to want to go over there. And back then a lot of domestic hip hop artists didn't want to travel. They felt like it was a whole other world. Like I'm not going to London. What do they eat over there? Like they food, you know, what do they speak over there? They speak English. Right? Um, so there, there were, there were a lot of unknowns about the world back then that don't really exist today. And he created this, this committee and we took a trip. We went to Japan, we went to Germany and went to London and he wants to meet with our partners in universal, in those prospective markets about how do we get Def jam thriving and kinda more engaged in just like, you know, you're a subsidiary who picks up our record and promotes one or two records here and there. He wanted a real presence in those markets and he felt for London, he wanted one of us there. He wanted somebody who lived it, who breathed it, who understood, um, the, kind of the ethos of the Def jam culture to go there and set up shops. So he tapped me to move to London with, uh, you know, this young kid, 20 something years old to build Def jam in London, um, with a skeleton staff inside, we were housed inside of mercury, which was also under the universal, um, umbrella at the time. So there were some services that came with that no different than a joint venture. Right. And, uh, I moved over there. We, um, I hired a young man named SIM, Texas went on to become one of the premier DJs in London as my, um, urban promo guy. Uh, there was a young lady, um, Merriam who did marketing. And then, you know, I, I functioned as kind of the label head and the ANR source. So we wore, you know, typical to our deaf GMB, New York, you wear multiple hats. You know, I'd be up in the day taking meetings, going to MTV, going to radio, and then I'd be out looking for this. And, um, and that my, my role was two things primarily was to, to sign domestic talent in London and to also bring over our us talent and make sure that they felt well taken care of it understood the importance of promoting that market back then, you know, like I said, Columbia was sending more, I carry Destiny's child. I mean, those artists were there weekly working, no different than a problem with trip to North Carolina. And a lot of other artists, specifically black artists were not coming over there. So I was responsible for bringing the Jay Z over, bringing jar rule over. At that time we had Christina and Leon, um, DMX. I don't think no DMX income with jar rule jar will. And Jay were two, like we're big ones because they were somewhat resistant, but they also understood the importance of it. So it felt good for them when they landed to have a familiar face that they knew that, you know, kind of knew nuances how they like to move, what worked, what didn't work. And, and it was an education process on both sides of the pond, right? It's an education process for our artists, just learning that there is a bigger world out there, right? And that this world buys records and they are fans and you have to touch them the same way you touch, you know, the States. And it was an education process for the UK marketplace. Just understanding that like, there are some cultural nuances and you have to be mindful of it. Right. You know, sometimes, you know, reporters and other countries can be very aggressive at that time, you know, or, you know, the taste and tone of certain interviews, right. Just like just working through those things to really kind of bridge the gap. So that was, so that was my function. Um, that was a big part of my function was kind of opening that up. And at that time, you know, there were no other Americans from, um, living in the UK, working in the music space.
Speaker 2:Wow. So you were really, you were breaking down barriers and you were opening doors for others. I mean, when you think about it, Jay probably had never, right. He's never, he never went to Europe before that. So you really, yeah. You really opened the gate for him and so many others to broaden their reach. And I mean, he's over there all the time and it never stopped. So how long were you, were you working over in the UK? I was for two years.
Speaker 3:And, and listen, like, you know, like anything, especially when, when you're in the beginning of it, it had its frustrations, right? Like there was, there was so much, I appreciated about the UK marketplace. I'm I'm to this day. I'm still glad I did it because it gave me, um, a lot of knowledge and information and, and I've always, I've always looked at the world as kind of, you know, my playground. Right. I don't, I don't, I don't ever want to be limited in a box and only know one thing I always say, don't, don't judge something. You haven't tried. A lot of people say, Oh, Oh, I hate this country. Have you been there? No. Okay. So how do you hate it? Right. So I've always been mindful of before I pass judgment on something to at least try it. And there's an amazing, um, culture in the UK. I mean, amazing talent, some amazing songwriters and major producers. Um, that amazing executives. I mean, when I was there, you know, darkest was still in the early days of the career, but, you know, I, I, I regard him as one of the best executives out there, period. He has some of the best taste. Um, and it's, it's not just in one genre, you know, at that time, leucine Rangers winning the publishing company was just moving over to take over universal UK completely. Alright. So there've been some amazing things that come out of the UK and their appreciation for solo music and urban music and the understanding of art and culture is amazing. But on the other side, there were things I didn't like, you know, there was just somewhat, uh, uh, a lack of respect for black executives and black music as you moved up the chain. Cause it just, you know, this was a country that was built on pop music was built on the Beatles, right. It was that, you know, at that time, it wasn't what it is today at all. So, you know, here's this young, black American coming over here telling them how to, how they should be in the music business. And, you know, that was met with some resistance. Um, so there were frustrations there, but right. Like anything there'll be frustration is it's nothing that, um, if I had to do it all over again, I would do it again. Great. Cause I think it was important. I think that it opened up a lot of conversation. I mean, there's so many peers and friends I have today that started then, you know, if it wasn't for my time there, I wouldn't have relationship with Tim blacksmith or so many executives and artists and writers and producers that, you know, as I was coming up, they were coming up then also. So,
Speaker 2:so a little bit, like, are you talking about the traditional label structure, there was resistance with maybe an American coming in and giving his or her purview on how to market and promote and develop artists?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think specifically on the label side, of course there were some executives, you know, I credit Lucien with understanding the importance of, you know, American, black culture music. I credit, you know, there was, there was, there were a executives, you know, that I met there from other labels that definitely understood it. I think overall it was new. It was just new and they didn't, they didn't get some of the tastes and tone, you know, for example, I remember, you know, why does JZ have to stay at this hotel? Or why, you know, why do we have to spend this much on dinner? Right. It was a very different conservative approach, but they didn't understand this part of the culture. As you know, it's not just, you know, these things are authentic to the artists, right? That's it, Jay's you spending his own money. He's going to stay at the hotel. So if you want him to come over here to promote, to sell records, which ultimately helps your bottom line, then you've got to appreciate, this is how that artist moves. Right. So it was like conversations like that, that I had to have that weren't even a conversation in the state. It wasn't even like it was, Kevin was like, go get Jay Z, two cases of Chris' style. Why, why isn't it done already? Why isn't it done already? So when I say with distance, I mean, just like having to explain why these nuances are important that today, you know, they get right back then was, it was, this is ridiculous. This is too much money. Why does this cost this? And why do we have to spend this on that? And, and it was just like,
Speaker 2:I remember those conversations back in the States, we would hear about them. And we're like, what are these people talking about? Like, this is the way it gets me.
Speaker 3:And this is how this, how it gets done. And we came from, we came from to get it done label,
Speaker 2:absolutely. By any means necessary. You need to get it done. Well, it sounds exciting. I love London. I've spent a lot of time there and I agree there's, there's so much talent that continues to emerge from, from the UK. Tinie, Tempah like the list just goes on and on and it's just, I'm so glad that you had that opportunity to spend that time there. So let's fast forward to today. Um, you're currently the head of ANR at Hidcote records. Um, let's, let's talk a bit about that. I'm as you know, personally obsessed with one of your artists st. John, he is just incredible. Um, so talk to us about hit co like how did that even come about?
Speaker 3:Well, first, thank you for all your support, you know, in your, in your MTV life, you were definitely at the head of the table, um, you know, fighting for an artist, you know, again, you know, a lot of times people don't understand. Right. And I'm pretty sure that there's probably executives there now looking like looking back, like, yeah, we weren't, we were on it. Like everyone was on it. Now that is number one. But, um, yeah, it's funny that, you know, my life with hit co is kind of brings me full circle back to working with Ellie Reed. And it was at a point when I, after my last label experience said, I didn't want to do labels anymore. You know, I had a great one at Def GMR was called at those my college years. Um, and then went on to Interscope Geffen for four years. And it was amazing. It was, it was, it wasn't the same family vibe, but, you know, I had a great boss in Jeff Cross that I got to work with people like Paul, Anthony and Jimmy been and work with amazing talent like Mary and common in Florida the most. But, you know, the, I feel like towards the end of bed runners, when there was a shift in the label, the kind of label energy, whereas artists were becoming more independent and labels were, were hiring what I call less creative. Right. It was more just operators. And you, you saw the rise of, of, of artists that just kind of like insulated themselves with their own team, their own video people don't and our people like the managers were just way more on it. And it's kind of drew me into management. You know, I looked at our peers like G Robeson, who was in, was a, was a label as like a and R Rockefeller. And, and you, you, you, you take all that knowledge. And he said, well, every artist has their own record label. I can do it. And you know, I, after, you know, several years managing, you know, our shirt and Mary in common and Brandy and tank and dream, you know, you, you learn how to do everything, you know, as, as you know, when you, when you work at a record label, it could be the greatest record label in the world. It's still a job, right. Still, it's still, there's still an end of the day. There still is no leaving. So one artist, you know, you're, you're, you're leading. This is to the label, but when you're a manager, it's 24 seven, it's no matter what it is from personal and professional. And I actually really enjoyed that because it's sharpened me up. It gave me way more skill sets in my tool chest that I've never had. Right. Like my understanding of touring and film and TV and publicity, and just like, um, branding. So it well-rounded me. Um, and I think it prepared me for him today with his coat, because this is, this is the first time since LA had LaFace records, that he has a startup and in today's world, a startup has to operate more like a management company. Like you have to better roll up your sleeves and do everything. You know, we didn't, we're not, we didn't start, you know, under some major we started as an independent with, you know, a 30 person staff. And when we first started was me LA our CFO, his partner, Charles, it was four or five of us. And we just, you know, we were, we signed st. John before we even had our office. Wow. We were still working from, you know, studios and in hotel lobbies as offices, very reminiscent of early Def jam days. Exactly. So it's, it's been great because I feel like had I not had all those years and experiences as a manager, I would not be prepared to do what I'm doing now. And I love it. Um, I think it's, I think it's great. I think it's the future. I think that, and you know, in a, in a funny turn of events, I think that record labels have again, become more important than they've been in a long time, because they've been forced to really step up, you know, because you're now in competition with the artists, you have to prove to the artists that you can bring value to their careers because artists don't need you. And the artists now can make the music go straight to Spotify, go straight to Apple, go straight to YouTube and go straight to MTV, straight to, to Jimmy found like an artist is not have to be represented by a record label to have some of the same, um, opportunities that they're their counterparts do that aside. So awareness in the younger artists. Absolutely they're there, they are more in tuned than ever before they, and, you know, thanks to the internet. They are just way there. They're so informed. They're they're glare. They, you know, they can look at these numbers every day. They can go to Spotify and see which artists are moving, seem to collaboration moving. I mean, and there's so much data available, you know, w you know, what are the artists top five markets, that's public information on Spotify, right? So, um, it, artists have, have had more access to information. It's cheaper to do everything. It's cheaper to make videos cheaper, to make songs. So an artist doesn't have to have this huge recording budget, or, you know, they don't have to have these shooting budgets that we got accustomed to, to be a contender in the game. Um, so I think there's artists, there's so much power in our artist's hands now, more than ever. And, you know, as we learn from, you know, one of the, one of the most valuable things Laura Lee or ever told me was your power comes from the artists, right? Like, it's your ability to be associated and move the talent because our business is based on them. No, we don't sing or dance. Right. So you can move the talent, then what's your, what is your true value? Right. And, um, you know, that's even more relevant today than ever before, because what's your true value. If, if an artists like Drake can do everything himself, then if you're on his team, you have to bring some real value because he's already shown you. I got this, I know what I'm doing. Right. You know what I'm saying? So, um, yeah, as, as a, as a brought me to hit go, it really forced me to, you know, what's my value. How does this company matter? Right? Yes. LA is one of the greatest recommend ever, you know, and how do we support that? Once we sign the artists, when we make the records, you know, how do I use relationships like yours and call MTV? You know, that was, that that's providing value, right? The artists didn't have a relationship with the, at the, at the network, or how do I put value? You know, any, once again, back to my manager days, it's like, okay, I can pick up and call Jesse Collins or, or Julie from Fallon, or, you know, when Saint John wanted to be front row at Kirby's Piramal show, he called me. Right. I was able to make that phone call to Kirby directly make the introduction. Like you have to be able to provide value because if not, the artist is going to figure out on their own, and then they don't need you.
Speaker 2:Exactly. Exactly. So other than st. John, my all time, favorite artists, what are you really excited about coming out of[inaudible]?
Speaker 3:Oh, so, so much. I mean, I feel like, you know, now that we've got our first two years behind us, and we're not third years, you know, like, like any startup we've, we've made our mistakes, we've kind of reviewed the review, the game tape, and, and we're, we're so much better now. I mean, we're, we're really seeing yellow BZ starting to blossom. Uh, one of, one of our early signings out of Dallas, um, we have a young lady named bureaucratic R and B singer out of Chicago. That's amazing. That's going to shock everybody. Um, we've got this new pop girl, Chelsea Collins. That's amazing. Also, um, we have this amazing singer songwriter, the Lacey, I mean, there's just so much that, you know, so much that that's kind of moving into its second phase. Some things starting in their first phase, you know, um, that we're really excited about.
Speaker 2:So, you know, recently, I mean, you get the question. It probably as much as I get the question, but recently this young lady called me and she wanted some advice. And the advice obviously was how to get into the music business. And when I asked her, well, why do you want to go into the music business? She went on and on about how much she loves music and how she loves to attend shows. And I, you know, I had to kind of gently tell her those really aren't reasons to go into the music business. We all like to go to shows and we all like, uh, you know, music. So what advice as a records, man, who's been, you know, who's had a very distinguished and, and interesting career journey. What's the one piece of advice you would give to someone who wants to work in the music industry.
Speaker 3:You know, that's a great question. And I'm going to try my best to sum it up in one answer. I think it's start with, what do you love? And then why do you love it? Right. Um, and that could sound vague, but it's, it's really not. If you think about it, right? If, if you say you love the music business, well, what do you love? Do you love the visual? Do you love videos, right. If you love videos and study videos, right? Like, look at them. What do you love about the way they're shot through with the storytelling? Do you love the people that put that together? Um, do you feel like you're more of a creator or an executer? You know, it starts with really having honest looks in the mirror and saying, okay, what am I great at? Or what do I think I have the potential to be great at? And how does, how, how does that apply to my love of whatever piece of the business that I'm want to get into? And you don't have to know that answer out the gate, right? You, it, you know, you start as an intern. I started as a promo intern before I figured out I love the ANR. You can bounce around that. There's nothing wrong with that is you can, you can try a lot of different departments and see, you know, what, you may not know anything about you may in the bluffing, right. But, but it's, it has to start with the pure love. I knew I loved music and what I always loved or what it would, it goes back to me is, you know, eighth grade I'm on a rooftop in Brooklyn and this girl plays is going through our mom's record collection and she plays Donny Hathaway assault for you. And I remember in that moment, how that song made me feel, right. It was just like, it was a feeling. And I said, at that moment, I want to be responsible for giving people that feeling. So how do I do that? Right. I remember the first time I heard a song I was involved with on the radio and how it felt and how the people around me reacted. Right. So, so it has to start with something pure. Like what's the feeling you want to give people, and then what's your contribution to that, right? It doesn't, you know, for me, it was, it became an art. It became, it became the balance between creative and an execution. Like, okay, you identify the talent. What should, what's your point of view? And what's your objectivity, you know, are you finding the right producers, the songwriters? Is it your conversation that sparks a song that they saying, you know, and how do you, how do you evolve on that? So my answer is, start with what you love, and then start at the ground level, just intern, just pay attention, look at everything, turn over every rock and find out what you like and what you don't like. And it will reveal itself as you do it.
Speaker 2:I agree. As you know, I started as an intern working under Tina Davis and I did a and R admin and then went on to do promotions and then video promotions, and then found what I really love, which was marketing. So, you know, we were, we were lucky. We were able to work in almost every department that we wanted to work in a, at a record label to really fine tune what our passion points were. And so, you know, I just don't know to in today's environment, if interns or people that are just starting out in their careers have that flexibility,
Speaker 3:it still exists. It's it? Listen, I think, um, some of the rules have changed and the requirements for being an intern and so on and so forth, but a true house. So figures it out. Right. I still, I still have interns. There are still people that, you know, you see intern at a management company. I mean, I always credit, you know, our brothers, Jeff Dixon and Shaka, Zulu, listen, absolutely TP has fostered more executive talent and just out of their little office in Atlanta, then a lot of people. Right, right. Love Renaissance, Amber Grimes. So many people that just came from there being around. Um, we, we all have stories like that there in terms of I've had, or people that worked for me that, you know, when Eve Pierre was an intern at Rockefeller and they came to work with me in the management side. And I, I forced her into the agency side and said, you gotta go to ICM. I don't know. I don't know what that is. I don't know. I don't, well, you're going to try it and now she loves it. Right. So it's, it's, it's if you want it, the opportunities are there. And that goes back to that hustler mentality, right. That, that never changed. That never goes away. I see it today, as clear as I did when I started the main thing. So let's segue out of, uh, the record man story,
Speaker 2:you know, I was pleasantly pleased when I came across an article that you wrote, which is up on medium. And I will send that link out to everyone which will be in the podcast and it was entitled why I run. And it's, it was a letter to your son. So you, you have a teenage son, um, you know, it's needless to say my heart is, is weary. Um, I think we are all a bit weary, but energized about the injustices that are, you know, at the forefront at this moment. I mean, we injustices against African Americans or black people. It has been ongoing for unfortunately decades, but, um, right now we're, we're in the middle of a lot of unrest. Um, whether it's from COVID to, um, George Floyd and the list goes on and on. And so I remember, um, walking in my neighborhood, maybe a couple of days after George Floyd was, was murdered. And I came across a young African American boy on a bike and we spoke to each other and I said to him, maybe a little too passionately, be careful out here. And I started to cry. I mean, I felt it's so, so deep in my heart. Um, so as a conscious and righteous father, like how are you preparing your son to deal with the world that we live in today and how do you keep him encouraged to be a part of the change that we seek?
Speaker 3:Yeah, listen, it's, it's, it's, um, you know, as, you know, being a parent, you know, every day is, is a new test is a new day. Um, I think, you know, for me, the, the motivation behind that writing, you know, it's been about maybe five, six years now. Um, I had a really bad surfing accident. Um, ironically, um, after I just did a cross country father, son trip with my son, um, that, uh, that was, you know, one of those eyeopening moments. And, uh, I'll never forget that, um, after my surgery against doctor's orders, of course, cause I'm hard headed. Um, I'm on a flight with common to Tokyo for some shows and I'm still in a lot of pain. I may be days out of surgery and common. Someone had referred to him a tie and I see coaches between the world and me at that time. And he kind of was telling everybody on the team about it. And I'll never forget that plane ride from LA to Tokyo. I read the whole book and then, um, it was basically letters to his son and it kind of spoke to spoke to the times we're living in right now, which is nothing new that, you know, obviously we've been dealing with this for 400 years, plus indeed. And, uh, when I landed, you know, between reading that book and the thought that, you know, my accident could have, you know, see me no longer here. I said, I need to be able to write to my son because I may not always be around to give him some of the games, some of the lessons, some information just about being a man about, about love, about relationships, about being black. Um, and you know, I thought about, you know, my father wasn't there and there, he, he, there was no one there to tell me those stories and while I am in his life, you know, I have to make sure I'm giving him the stories. And I, you know, we talk and obviously teenage boys and, you know, black men, we don't, we sometimes we don't communicate the best, you know, father, son conversation that aren't, you know, always as fluid as they should be. But, you know, once you write it down, it's always there. And, um, so I started writing then, and then I kind of, I would come in and out of it, I shared, some of them are some reminders from friends. Like you should write a book and, um, you know, fast forward I was, I was inspired again recently after the passing of, um, our friend Andrew around to start writing again. Cause I just said, you know, that's part of my purpose, right? Like we all have a role to play. We all have a purpose of PE playing change and you know, like any other culture, storytelling is our currency that you pass forward. Right. It's like, you know, the Bible is this book that we all reference. We weren't here to write it. Right. Like, but we're all, we're all here to take inspiration from it. While here it gives us something to model our lives after. And that's, to me what writing is, it's like, it gives people kind of roadmap. It gives people inspiration information. Um, so, um, after I wrote, you know, kind of this letter to Andrew around just with the importance of that he had in my life, um, I was then inspired by the George, George Florida and where we are. Again, we find ourselves again today and I said, let me write to my son because, you know, while we've had these conversations, we've talked about it. I mean, I remember clearly having conversation with him when he was 11, you know, don't wear your hoodie on the bus, um, you know, keep your hands out your pocket. And you know, don't talk back to the police. Uh, like, you know, if you're with a group of friends, like we, I've kind of given him you the how to live guide for being a black boy and that you have to do it over and over and over again. Right. And you know, now he's 14, he's going to high school. And you know, he lives in a, you're living in a fluid neighborhood. You know, he goes to school with, you know, most of his friends are white at his school, nothing wrong with that, but he needs to understand that he'll be judged differently. You know, you and your friends get stopped. There's a great probability that they're going to view you as a problem before they view them, even if you're doing nothing. Um, so that's kind of what inspired the letters. Just like just constant reminder, you know, it's not about preaching or beating him in the head with information, but just constantly reminding him, like, just because it hasn't happened to you yet. It doesn't mean it can't happen. That's what, you know, I had to deal with racism early on in life. And I, I had some of my own encounters and you know, he hasn't had some of those experiences yet. So, you know, you try to give him, you know, uh, you know, some, some lessons you learned by doing some lessons you learn by listening, right? So like I learned that irons are hot by touching the iron that my grandmother said, don't touch the iron, you know, I touch it. So, um, you know, I think that's, that's kind of what the impetus of my writings was.
Speaker 2:Well, it, it was, it was simply beautiful. It really was. And it touched a lot of people and, you know, I hope you continue to write because, and I can't wait for the book because you definitely have a profound story to tell that will touch a lot of people. So if anyone wants to read up on jihad and the beautiful articles that he has written to date, go to medium.com and look up his name, Joshua Johnson. So before we end this amazing conversation, cause you and I could talk forever. Tell the people, what are you reading right now?
Speaker 3:Um, well I'm rereading James Baldwin, the fire next time. I feel like it's very, uh, very timely. Absolutely. Um, it's really good. What are you listening to? What am I listening to? Um, yeah, of course I'm always listening to, to my artists. Um, I'm a, I'm I get lost in jazz constantly. Like I love Kamasi Washington and Robert Glasper and Christian Scott. Um, those are some of my favorites. Um, and I listen to listen to a lot of like, like my old Joe to see and tribe called quest. Absolutely. Um, but yeah, I kinda, I kinda bounce around in those spaces
Speaker 2:after the versus, um, one 12 versus, um, uh, jagged edge. I had to dig out the one 12 album and was like, there, there are like so many hits on that. S woo. I mean, that's, that's what music does. Sometimes you have to go and revisit something that was a, at the bottom of the crate. That's right. Listen, jihad. I cannot thank you enough for participating and for being so open and sharing your journey with us. I know a lot of people, um, will benefit from your words. I appreciate you always supporting me friends where at the end of no, need to ask podcasts with Joshua Johnson until next time be well and be safe. Thank you.